Posted by: Eric "Eightball" Ellison on December 28, 2003 at 20:54:56

Thanks for all the great info. Even though you commented that they are overpriced, I've decided to purchase a Dye Reflex 2k3. They are closing them out now so I can get one for around $600. I've read info from pbreview that the people who own them have been happy but the front end leaks a bit. I'm not interested in buying a gun then having to put time and $$$ to upgrade it, and the Dye seems to come with high end parts from the start. I'll let you know how it works out. Thanks again for the great info! *bal : : I've been using a Syder E-99 for three years now and since I'm offically hooked on paintball, I'm thinking about upgrading to a better gun. I'll have saved around $600 by spring and am considering buying a Smart Parts Impulse w/Vision. What other guns should I be considering as well? Is an Impulse a high end gun? Will I also need to purchase a new air tank for it? I have 3000psi air tank for my Spyder. Need the 411!!! : : TIA : : 8ball : hey.. here is a copy of an e-mail that i've sent to my close friend that was in same shoes as you.. maybe it might help. : well.. i guess what i'm trying to say is that ... the lower "high pressure"/ "blowback"(tippman, kingman spyders, M3 black dragons, JT excellerator, etc.) paintguns range from $100 to $200... but these ARE lower class paintguns.. which means that they cannot use high-end paint, inconsistent, and it's just a beginning level gun.... in which i think that you've grown out of.... : Now, lets look at some high-end paintguns.. : there are two categories.. the open and closed bolt operated paintguns... (there are much discussion as to closed bolt shooting much more accurately than the open bolt, but i personally think that they do shoot little bit more accurately but the difference is very minor,, but one thing is for sure, open bolt shoots much much faster) : let's look at OPEN bolt guns : -Airgun Design's Automag, $250 - $550, pretty good, this is what Alex has, but pretty old technology very old school, one of the first big popular markers so it doesn't look so great. There is an e-mag for $1000+ top of the line stuff... but.... : -Indian Creek's Bushmaster LCD, BKO, B2K, $280 - $550, really good stuff, I would recommend this gun, cause this gun is what the Timmy's are based on, i've seen many tourny guys use this gun, one of the top of the line stuff with a lot of goodies and very cheap.. looks alright too... shoots veryfast.. the B2k has the inferred-anti-chop eyes.. actually they call it PDS(paintball detection system) for Bushmasters, i think it's because of copy right issues... n e ways... really nice marker : -SmartPart's Impulse w, w/o vision, $450 - $600, also a really nice marker... very similar to Bushmaster but from Smartparts.. i think the Bushmaster looks better though.. : -SmartPart's Shocker w, w/o vision, 03' system(includes bottom reg, and pre-set tank), $700 - $900 - $1050, Now this is very nice marker, the old Shocker sucked, but the 03's are awesome... i think i want this one for my next marker... it's a single bore construction which means that it has very small profile, not as tall as other guns... looks great... i would totally recommend this IF you wanna kick it up to the next level..... the 03's system comes with basically everything you need to just play right out of the box, but it's about $1000+ : -WDP's Angel, LCD, C&C, 03's speed, A4..., $1000+ what everz from here on... the top of the line stuff... : -Bob Long's Timmy, GZ, 2k2, Dragon, Ironman, Lasoya, etc... : -Gen-X's/Dye's E-Matrix, the New DM4 is awesome... : : Now let's look at CLOSED bolt Guns. : There are only one kind of closed bolt guns.. the Autococker. Period... there are few others but not worth the time to look at.. : WGP (War Game Products) are the mother company, but there are many after market companies that modify and upgrade. (dye, system-x, warped sports dark, ANS, cold fusion, shocktech, psycho ballistics, etc.) so let's look at some of them. : -WGP's Autocockers : -02's cocker, $300 : -03's cocker, $350 these above are crap in my personal opinion cause they are heavy and parts are made with brass, which can rust... : -Outkast, $500, pretty good : -Blackmagic, $550, pretty good : -Orracle, $600 - $900, very nice : -E-Orracle, $1200+, very very nice.. can almost shoot as fast as the timmy's and angel's : -the new NightKast, (outkast with electronics) very very nice... : -ANS, GX-3, GX4, E-GX, $450-$550-$1000+ : -System-X, Type X, basic-X, Vengence-X, $350, $400, $600, the TypeX is what i have little on the heavy side, but that's because it's based on the WGP's 03' cocker, and they didn't mill anything out of the metal of the body, but all the parts are made with stainless steel... which is very good... the 03's are not... : -Dye, sucks cause they are overpriced, they justify the price because they use all their own parts... : -Warped Sports Dark Cocker also sucks cause they are also overpriced. : -Cold Fusion, Shocktech... all the same... : -Psycho Ballistics is another story... they have Lighting cocker,$350, which is light, but single trigger frame, they also have Super Bolt,$420, which comes in Hinge trigger frame(swing/double whatever you wanna call it). But both of these does not come with a in-line regulator, so you have to buy one... which can be $50-$150.. : And that pretty much covers it.... on the markers. : You will also need a hopper, ASA(Air System Adaptor), and you did say a new mask right? : well.. the hoppers go for $45 - $100... the $45 one is fine... the a Revy 12volt.. and the ASA is about $20 - $50 but i have a some hoses and two dropforward that you can have.. so don't worry about that.. and a decent mask it about $35.. : about High Pressure Air tanks(Nitro tanks/compressed air tanks) : the break down looks like this : -47 cubic inch/ 3000 psi tank.. $70-$75 (this is what matt has) this is made out of steel so little on the heavy side.. about the same as your 20oz CO2 tank. : -72 cc/ 3000 psi tank $130, also steel : -45 cc/ 4500 psi tank $170-$180, from here and up is more expensive because it's carbon fiber wrapped tanks. : -68 cc/ 3000 psi tank $155-$165 : -68 cc/ 4500 psi tank $175-$190 : -68 cc/ 5000 psi tank $210-$220(i have this one) : -88 cc/ 3000 psi tank $190-$200(i have this one also) : -88 cc/ 4500 pai tank $210-$220 : -there are some other tanks that go up to $600 but that's really high end stuff with controlable regurators.. so i'm not going to get into that... : here's the rule of thumb as to how many shoots you get out of each tank... : on a 3000 psi tank you get about 10 shoots per cc... so on a 68cc/3000psi you get about 680 shoots, that's your hopper and little less than 4 pods. : on a 4500 psi tank you get about 15 shoots per cc.. so on a 68cc/4500psi you get about 1020 shoots, that's your hopper and little less than 6 pods. : something you need to know is that most recreational paintball parks can ONLY fill your tank upto 3000psi.. 4500psi and up can be filled only in tournaments and just few paintball parks... so i suggest you get the 68/3k or the 88/3k but 88/3k is little on the big side.. : i really recommend the compressed tanks because it's very consistent which equals to accuracy and cheap because all you have to do is pay for one time all day air and you can get unlimited refills through out the day... bad part is that it's expensive and every 5years you have to go get is hydro checked... : about barrels... : back in the days.. not a lot of barrels were good, they were not polished very well, the dye Boomstick series were the best.. : but now adays.. most of the new barrels are great.. polished down to 2-4 microns... which is the smoothest it can get.. : now, the question is not how smooth the barrels are(because most are same now) but how well does it fit the paintballs? : that's why there are barrel systems.. such as the Smartpart's Freak system(i have this one), which has 8 inserts that match you paint balls bore size.. they range from .681 to .695.. which is a lot... but since the technology improved on the barrels so did the paintballs... back in the days the companies made many different size paintballs that varied a lot.... but now adays... most of the paintballs' bore size range only from .688 to .692 which narrows down to a minimum. : so.. : the Dye Boomstick Series, boom, ultralight(i have this one), titanium, $90-$120, are still awesome because they are set at .689 which is the most paintball size.... : the freak is awesome also, but there is no need for the low and high bore size inserts... just few of the middle ones : so now the companies are making good barrels that are ported down to 2-5 microns, and have just few bore size kits.. such as Evil's Pipe barrel kits,$175(i also have this one)... : there for many of the new single barrels and systems are great... CP single $60 .688, extream system $150.. 5 bore backs... etc. etc.... : I think that's all : so that's it... let me know if you have questions... : good paintballing!!! : phillip

Follow Ups: Post a Followup Show your name as: DefaultRealnameBothNickname E-Mail address (eg: joeschmoe@aol.com): Show your e-mail address? DefaultYesNo Your Password: Don't have a password? CLICK HERE - Forgot your password? CLICK HERE Subject: Subject:Message: : Thanks for all the great info. Even though you commented that they are overpriced, I've decided to purchase a Dye Reflex 2k3. They are closing them out now so I can get one for around $600. I've read info from pbreview that the people who own them have been happy but the front end leaks a bit. I'm not interested in buying a gun then having to put time and $$$ to upgrade it, and the Dye seems to come with high end parts from the start. I'll let you know how it works out. Thanks again for the great info! : *bal : : : I've been using a Syder E-99 for three years now and since I'm offically hooked on paintball, I'm thinking about upgrading to a better gun. I'll have saved around $600 by spring and am considering buying a Smart Parts Impulse w/Vision. What other guns should I be considering as well? Is an Impulse a high end gun? Will I also need to purchase a new air tank for it? I have 3000psi air tank for my Spyder. Need the 411!!! : : : TIA : : : 8ball : : hey.. here is a copy of an e-mail that i've sent to my close friend that was in same shoes as you.. maybe it might help. : : well.. i guess what i'm trying to say is that ... the lower "high pressure"/ "blowback"(tippman, kingman spyders, M3 black dragons, JT excellerator, etc.) paintguns range from $100 to $200... but these ARE lower class paintguns.. which means that they cannot use high-end paint, inconsistent, and it's just a beginning level gun.... in which i think that you've grown out of.... : : Now, lets look at some high-end paintguns.. : : there are two categories.. the open and closed bolt operated paintguns... (there are much discussion as to closed bolt shooting much more accurately than the open bolt, but i personally think that they do shoot little bit more accurately but the difference is very minor,, but one thing is for sure, open bolt shoots much much faster) : : let's look at OPEN bolt guns : : -Airgun Design's Automag, $250 - $550, pretty good, this is what Alex has, but pretty old technology very old school, one of the first big popular markers so it doesn't look so great. There is an e-mag for $1000+ top of the line stuff... but.... : : -Indian Creek's Bushmaster LCD, BKO, B2K, $280 - $550, really good stuff, I would recommend this gun, cause this gun is what the Timmy's are based on, i've seen many tourny guys use this gun, one of the top of the line stuff with a lot of goodies and very cheap.. looks alright too... shoots veryfast.. the B2k has the inferred-anti-chop eyes.. actually they call it PDS(paintball detection system) for Bushmasters, i think it's because of copy right issues... n e ways... really nice marker : : -SmartPart's Impulse w, w/o vision, $450 - $600, also a really nice marker... very similar to Bushmaster but from Smartparts.. i think the Bushmaster looks better though.. : : -SmartPart's Shocker w, w/o vision, 03' system(includes bottom reg, and pre-set tank), $700 - $900 - $1050, Now this is very nice marker, the old Shocker sucked, but the 03's are awesome... i think i want this one for my next marker... it's a single bore construction which means that it has very small profile, not as tall as other guns... looks great... i would totally recommend this IF you wanna kick it up to the next level..... the 03's system comes with basically everything you need to just play right out of the box, but it's about $1000+ : : -WDP's Angel, LCD, C&C, 03's speed, A4..., $1000+ what everz from here on... the top of the line stuff... : : -Bob Long's Timmy, GZ, 2k2, Dragon, Ironman, Lasoya, etc... : : -Gen-X's/Dye's E-Matrix, the New DM4 is awesome... : : : : Now let's look at CLOSED bolt Guns. : : There are only one kind of closed bolt guns.. the Autococker. Period... there are few others but not worth the time to look at.. : : WGP (War Game Products) are the mother company, but there are many after market companies that modify and upgrade. (dye, system-x, warped sports dark, ANS, cold fusion, shocktech, psycho ballistics, etc.) so let's look at some of them. : : -WGP's Autocockers : : -02's cocker, $300 : : -03's cocker, $350 these above are crap in my personal opinion cause they are heavy and parts are made with brass, which can rust... : : -Outkast, $500, pretty good : : -Blackmagic, $550, pretty good : : -Orracle, $600 - $900, very nice : : -E-Orracle, $1200+, very very nice.. can almost shoot as fast as the timmy's and angel's : : -the new NightKast, (outkast with electronics) very very nice... : : -ANS, GX-3, GX4, E-GX, $450-$550-$1000+ : : -System-X, Type X, basic-X, Vengence-X, $350, $400, $600, the TypeX is what i have little on the heavy side, but that's because it's based on the WGP's 03' cocker, and they didn't mill anything out of the metal of the body, but all the parts are made with stainless steel... which is very good... the 03's are not... : : -Dye, sucks cause they are overpriced, they justify the price because they use all their own parts... : : -Warped Sports Dark Cocker also sucks cause they are also overpriced. : : -Cold Fusion, Shocktech... all the same... : : -Psycho Ballistics is another story... they have Lighting cocker,$350, which is light, but single trigger frame, they also have Super Bolt,$420, which comes in Hinge trigger frame(swing/double whatever you wanna call it). But both of these does not come with a in-line regulator, so you have to buy one... which can be $50-$150.. : : And that pretty much covers it.... on the markers. : : You will also need a hopper, ASA(Air System Adaptor), and you did say a new mask right? : : well.. the hoppers go for $45 - $100... the $45 one is fine... the a Revy 12volt.. and the ASA is about $20 - $50 but i have a some hoses and two dropforward that you can have.. so don't worry about that.. and a decent mask it about $35.. : : about High Pressure Air tanks(Nitro tanks/compressed air tanks) : : the break down looks like this : : -47 cubic inch/ 3000 psi tank.. $70-$75 (this is what matt has) this is made out of steel so little on the heavy side.. about the same as your 20oz CO2 tank. : : -72 cc/ 3000 psi tank $130, also steel : : -45 cc/ 4500 psi tank $170-$180, from here and up is more expensive because it's carbon fiber wrapped tanks. : : -68 cc/ 3000 psi tank $155-$165 : : -68 cc/ 4500 psi tank $175-$190 : : -68 cc/ 5000 psi tank $210-$220(i have this one) : : -88 cc/ 3000 psi tank $190-$200(i have this one also) : : -88 cc/ 4500 pai tank $210-$220 : : -there are some other tanks that go up to $600 but that's really high end stuff with controlable regurators.. so i'm not going to get into that... : : here's the rule of thumb as to how many shoots you get out of each tank... : : on a 3000 psi tank you get about 10 shoots per cc... so on a 68cc/3000psi you get about 680 shoots, that's your hopper and little less than 4 pods. : : on a 4500 psi tank you get about 15 shoots per cc.. so on a 68cc/4500psi you get about 1020 shoots, that's your hopper and little less than 6 pods. : : something you need to know is that most recreational paintball parks can ONLY fill your tank upto 3000psi.. 4500psi and up can be filled only in tournaments and just few paintball parks... so i suggest you get the 68/3k or the 88/3k but 88/3k is little on the big side.. : : i really recommend the compressed tanks because it's very consistent which equals to accuracy and cheap because all you have to do is pay for one time all day air and you can get unlimited refills through out the day... bad part is that it's expensive and every 5years you have to go get is hydro checked... : : about barrels... : : back in the days.. not a lot of barrels were good, they were not polished very well, the dye Boomstick series were the best.. : : but now adays.. most of the new barrels are great.. polished down to 2-4 microns... which is the smoothest it can get.. : : now, the question is not how smooth the barrels are(because most are same now) but how well does it fit the paintballs? : : that's why there are barrel systems.. such as the Smartpart's Freak system(i have this one), which has 8 inserts that match you paint balls bore size.. they range from .681 to .695.. which is a lot... but since the technology improved on the barrels so did the paintballs... back in the days the companies made many different size paintballs that varied a lot.... but now adays... most of the paintballs' bore size range only from .688 to .692 which narrows down to a minimum. : : so.. : : the Dye Boomstick Series, boom, ultralight(i have this one), titanium, $90-$120, are still awesome because they are set at .689 which is the most paintball size.... : : the freak is awesome also, but there is no need for the low and high bore size inserts... just few of the middle ones : : so now the companies are making good barrels that are ported down to 2-5 microns, and have just few bore size kits.. such as Evil's Pipe barrel kits,$175(i also have this one)... : : there for many of the new single barrels and systems are great... CP single $60 .688, extream system $150.. 5 bore backs... etc. etc.... : : I think that's all : : so that's it... let me know if you have questions... : : good paintballing!!! : : phillip [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ WARPIG Tech Talk - High End Paintguns ]