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WARPIG Tech Talk - Autococker / Minicocker
Re: I might be you but it doesn't have to be......

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Posted by Dale "Head_Hunters" DuPont on October 31, 2002 at 15:52:33:

In Reply to: Chopping and shortstroking... posted by Sixpack440 on October 30, 2002 at 20:26:41:

Lets assume you have a 'perfect' full stroke every trigger pull. If you have your marker slightly mistimed with a slight amount of blow back that results in getting chops at higher rates of fire and not at low rates of fire.

At a slow rate, it has more time for the ball to blow back up the chute and then fall into the chamber. At a faster rate of fire, it blows the ball back up the chute and falls back down at the exact time the bolt is closing and chops it in half.

So do the toilet paper test. It is posted along in here and elsewhere on timing articles. If it doesn't suck, or blows back, you have to lengthen the distance between the firing point and the 3 way activation point without screwing up any of the other timing requirments.

You can adjust the sear lug to move the firing point forward AND/OR lengthen the 3 way connection ever so slightly. 1/4 -1/2 turn.

But you asked about upgrades that can help reduce the frequency of short strokes.

In order of importance and dollars for value:

1. Shortened 3 way. The distance between the MIDDLE port and the end port should be as close together as you can. Many after market 3 ways are same as stock and the remainder is not created equal. So take your stock 3 way with you when shopping. This is NOT an internet purchase. All 3 ways of the same BRAND are not created equal either. Take it out of the box and slide the shaft in and out like it would during your markers normal operation. You should NOT be able to feel the o ring pass over the ports. Don't buy and BS about a 'break in' period or having to 'polish'. It should be REALLY smooth right out of the box.

They will be a bear to time. VERY fussy. Mine is out of tune and acting up if the adjustment nut is 1/4 turn either way of perfect. If you don't have a threaded 3 way connecting rod, get one or be prepared to drive yourself crazy tuning it. If you have to buy one, get the one with the FLATS on the adjusting nut. The round ones are a pain.

That will do a huge amount to reduce the frequency of short strokes.


2. This won't reduce short stroke but you get a jam instead of a chop.

Lower the operating pressure of the FRONT regulator. The stock ones are internally adjustable. No need to buy an externally adjustable one unless you just want the convenience which IS considerable. But you wind up finding the right settings and then wish you could quit bumping the external adjustment out of the proper setting. This process just lowers the closing force of the bolt against a short stroked, jammed ball. If it is too high, the ball chops in half. But a Jam is a lot better than a chop.

3. The theory goes that with a lighter hammer spring and a heavier hammer, you can still produce the same velocity. The lighter hammer spring will reduce further the amount of pressure and thus force required to overcome the spring and recock the marker. Thus the same force is reduced when closing the bolt. If it is reduced then it would be less likely to break a jammed ball.

I however, do not agree that this is an effective approach. The kinetic energy of the hammer is what opens the valve. Notice the lighter spring and heavier hammer would offset each other as far as how much kinetic energy the lighter spring can generate trying to accelerate the heavier hammer. The amount of reduced force BELOW what can be done by adjusting the front reg down would be minimal.

The general consensus is that the expensive, extra heavy hammers do little to permit a lower operating pressure of the main reg which is what they are ususally advertized for. And yours is the first mention of using a heavier hammer to reduce chops that I have read. Want a heavier Hammer? Replace the cocking rod nut with a large piece of steel or brass Rod with a hole drilled though it. The cocking rod IS part of the total mass of the hammer striking the valve.

3. The only REAL way to reduce the resistance of the hammer spring resistance is to also reduce the valve spring resistance with it so you can still produce 300 fps. So a $12 Madmann spring set might be a good investment along with a $15 valve removal tool you will need to install it with.


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