Posted by: Dale "Head_Hunters" DuPont on April 17, 2003 at 15:27:49

My basic point is that paint isn't round and thus the DIAMETER of a paint simply depends on where you measure the each ball. If you compare the largest diameter of an individual ball to its smallest diameter, it will range across a good portion of the available barrel bores in the marketplace. For example, the Freak System runs 8 bores varying 0.001" each. Total Range: 0.008" Real high quality paint varies 0.006" at best... Field paint varies 0.040" +. What bore do you use to 'match' that? As a practical matter how can you 'match' a barrel bore to paint that varies so much in diameter? Simply the wrong approach to 'matching' paint to barrel. You can't compare a paint guide diameter table and go out and pick a barrel bore for it. And vice versa. It's still atricycle shoot if it will work trouble free and be at max accuracy compared to a bore 0.002 bigger or smaller. Sure 'match' has an effect. It DOES MATTER. But it isn't predictable when you go out to buy a barrel or a paint to 'match' with each other. Now if you take a 20 ball sample and measure each one, the variation from MAX to Min varies even more. Largest Diameter to Smallest Diameter of the entire sample of 20. From a practical point of view what number would you use for a paint diameter to 'match' with a particular barrel bore? Picking that number is just a personal choice. A value judgement. An educated GUESS. No science to it. Me I'd pick the MEAN of the Average Max Diameter and Average Min Diameter and cross my fingers it won't roll out the barrel or break. Others might pick the Ave Max diameter to avoid barrel breaks. I might in the winter. Others just might put a scope on their marker and actually shoot paint and see what works best in their set up. If we do our little study, it will be very interesting to compare our results from paintballers in the field to the diameters that are published by the manufacturers in the tables we see on websites for those paints. If you can't "match" a bore to a given paint, then how can one determine what bore/paint match is most accurate? I submit one can't. We wind up making a very unscientific but valid value judgements based on what works for us in the field... A judgement largely based on experience. No breaks and shoots straight so I'll buy some more.... Go grab a mic and 20 balls and see if we can get 10 different brands of paint posted. It would be useful information and discussion even if we can't reach a consensus on the 'Match' criteria. Dale : Razor : : : That's some pretty heavy stuff you're saying about paint to bore size matching not mattering. I applaud you're audacity and your theories are sound, but trying to convince everyone to throw away their long standing beliefs is going to take more than theories. : : I'm just not buying it! I am not the type of person who can be convinced something is true just because the numbers add up. I build automated machinery for a living and I've seen engineers come up with ideas that sound great on paper but they just don't work. On the flip side of that, some theories will never work on paper but in reality they work just fine. For instance, according to engineers and physicists, helecopters should not be able to fly, but we've all witnessed them flying all over Iraq recently. : : For years there have been numerous tests in which the results indicate that painball to bore size DOES matter. Many of these tests were unsolicited so the results wouldn't be biased. I have yet to see the results of a barrel to bore size test that showed no difference between matching and non-matching. : : If you know of any hard proof of your theories please post it in a reply. I would like to see it. Don't take it the wrong way, I'm not trying to make fun of you. I would love to see you proven right and watch as the whole paintball community jaws hit the ground. I'm just asking for some test results. : : PEACE!

Follow Ups: Post a Followup Show your name as: DefaultRealnameBothNickname E-Mail address (eg: joeschmoe@aol.com): Show your e-mail address? DefaultYesNo Your Password: Don't have a password? CLICK HERE - Forgot your password? CLICK HERE Subject: Subject:Message: : My basic point is that paint isn't round and thus the DIAMETER of a paint simply depends on where you measure the each ball. : If you compare the largest diameter of an individual ball to its smallest diameter, it will range across a good portion of the available barrel bores in the marketplace. For example, the Freak System runs 8 bores varying 0.001" each. Total Range: 0.008" Real high quality paint varies 0.006" at best... Field paint varies 0.040" +. What bore do you use to 'match' that? : As a practical matter how can you 'match' a barrel bore to paint that varies so much in diameter? : Simply the wrong approach to 'matching' paint to barrel. You can't compare a paint guide diameter table and go out and pick a barrel bore for it. And vice versa. It's still a<i>tricycle</i> shoot if it will work trouble free and be at max accuracy compared to a bore 0.002 bigger or smaller. : Sure 'match' has an effect. It DOES MATTER. : But it isn't predictable when you go out to buy a barrel or a paint to 'match' with each other. : Now if you take a 20 ball sample and measure each one, the variation from MAX to Min varies even more. Largest Diameter to Smallest Diameter of the entire sample of 20. : From a practical point of view what number would you use for a paint diameter to 'match' with a particular barrel bore? : Picking that number is just a personal choice. A value judgement. An educated GUESS. No science to it. : Me I'd pick the MEAN of the Average Max Diameter and Average Min Diameter and cross my fingers it won't roll out the barrel or break. : Others might pick the Ave Max diameter to avoid barrel breaks. I might in the winter. : Others just might put a scope on their marker and actually shoot paint and see what works best in their set up. : If we do our little study, it will be very interesting to compare our results from paintballers in the field to the diameters that are published by the manufacturers in the tables we see on websites for those paints. : If you can't "match" a bore to a given paint, then how can one determine what bore/paint match is most accurate? I submit one can't. : We wind up making a very unscientific but valid value judgements based on what works for us in the field... A judgement largely based on experience. : No breaks and shoots straight so I'll buy some more.... : Go grab a mic and 20 balls and see if we can get 10 different brands of paint posted. It would be useful information and discussion even if we can't reach a consensus on the 'Match' criteria. : Dale : : Razor : : : : : That's some pretty heavy stuff you're saying about paint to bore size matching not mattering. I applaud you're audacity and your theories are sound, but trying to convince everyone to throw away their long standing beliefs is going to take more than theories. : : : I'm just not buying it! I am not the type of person who can be convinced something is true just because the numbers add up. I build automated machinery for a living and I've seen engineers come up with ideas that sound great on paper but they just don't work. On the flip side of that, some theories will never work on paper but in reality they work just fine. For instance, according to engineers and physicists, helecopters should not be able to fly, but we've all witnessed them flying all over Iraq recently. : : : For years there have been numerous tests in which the results indicate that painball to bore size DOES matter. Many of these tests were unsolicited so the results wouldn't be biased. I have yet to see the results of a barrel to bore size test that showed no difference between matching and non-matching. : : : If you know of any hard proof of your theories please post it in a reply. I would like to see it. Don't take it the wrong way, I'm not trying to make fun of you. I would love to see you proven right and watch as the whole paintball community jaws hit the ground. I'm just asking for some test results. : : : PEACE! [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ WARPIG Tech Talk - Autococker / Minicocker ]