Posted by: "Geek1246" Michigan on January 23, 2004 at 14:33:13

: But it was discussed a while back. : All speculation and no first hand users. : So with that in mind, a gray matter quick summary of the speculation. : Seems like a good concept. Basically sound. The pressure of the spring and thus on a mis fed ball would be constant and independent of the ram force. If your ball wall strength was strong enough, you would get a 'jam' rather than a 'chop' : You would still get 'jams' which are better than a chop any day of the week but still a REAL NUISANCE to experience in the middle of a firefight. : So the concensus is that the only real cure is learning to STOKE, STROKE, STROKE a full trigger pull AND release each time you pull the trigger. : Easy to say. After 9 years I still get excited and try to go TOO FAST and jam/chop one with a short stroke. Always when I need it LEAST to happen. Duh! : There was also a consensus that a shortened 3 way would likely work just as well in decreasing the frequency of chops and jams over a stock set up. : So compare the cost and if equal, go with the proven method. Otherwise, be adventerous and let us all know how it works out. : There was also speculation that the bolt would act like a piston during the firing of the ball. The back pressure would push the bolt backwards and potentially cause blowback. The spring pressure would have to be sufficient to actually prevent this during firing. : The Same consideration applies in lowering the ram force closing and opening the stoke bolt by lowering the front reg pressure. The ram is nothing but an air spring during the firing cycle. It also has to prevent the bolt from blowing backwards during firing. : This can be easily be demonstrated if you have ever fired your marker with the bolt pin removed by 'mistake'. I suggest if you try this to NOT have your face behind the bolt when you do it. It hurts. : But the discussion continued that the force of the ram opening and closing the bolt is far above the force required to hold the bolt closed with sufficient force to not blow back during firing and doesn't occur in the real world. : The recocking force/pressure required to open the bolt and COMPRESS the HAMMER SPRING far exceeds what is required to hold the bolt closed during firing. Since the force required to open the bolt is the same for closing it, the spring idea still makes some sense as a viable concept with merit. : Then the hair splitting, PURE speculation about a 'partial' bolt blowback that could potentially affect the consistency of muzzle velocities, accuracy, etc. : AND SOMEONE else, (don't ask me where) had a different approach and aftermarket product fo the same problem. : The goal being to have an user adjustable, minimum force to hold the bolt sufficiently closed to prevent chops and partial bolt blowback during firing. : He used TWO front pressure regulators. One pressure set to OPEN the bolt and compress the hammer spring. The other would have the pressure set MUCH LOWER to close the ram/bolt without chopping a ball. That was an expensive front end aftermarket mod. Still, a Sound concept. : : And being CHEAP, I pondered a way to stick another front reg in the bottom block plug hole and do exactly the same thing.... Instead of a 3 way, it would require a completely different valving system. : And STILL being CHEAP all one would have to do is take the hose off the 3 way feed to the ram port that closes the bolt. Save air an plug the 'extra' 3 way port. Now it won't close the bolt at all. So just put a spring inside the ram to close it. Or rig one on the connecting rod or retrofit it with a one way spring return valve. Hmmmmm..... Anyone want to try it. I have some resources for vendors. This particular project won't be on my list of things to try anytime soon? : : Now ya know what I know about their anti-chop bolt. : Nothing......... : But we had fun.... First off: Thank you. Second off: You stuck your head behing the bolt without the pin in? I always wondered what would happen if I forgot the pin. I myself have never tried it, but thanks for letting me know not to. It always amazes me at the stupid things us Cocker owns will do either by accident or to see what happens. My claim to fame was I couldn't get air out of the bolt. I checked the bolt and it was in right, but all it would do is make a clicking noise. Upon experimenting I for some stupid reason decided that I would pull my bolt out and stick my finger in there. In the process I had turned down my reg. Well after yelling in pain for a good 10 minutes and my dad making sure that I didn't blow my finger off via air pressure. I found out that if the bottom reg is to high, no air comes out. But (insert proper cussing), you turn that reg down a bit and air will start coming out again. If you have your finger over the valve hole, it will slam your finger hard enough against the top of the body to physically remove your finger nail. Of course it couldn't happen in the privacy of my own home, where my team couldn't see me and I could never mention my stupidity again. Instead my whole frickin team was standing right there to enjoy the experience. So let's have some fun. What stupid or funny things have others done with thier cockers that you can look back and laugh at yourself?

Follow Ups: Re: Stupid Cocker tricks. Let's hear from everyone! "LP_Cockerdude" 11:40:15 02/01/04 (0) Every new owner.... "Vampyr" 12:28:29 01/25/04 (0) Post a Followup Show your name as: DefaultRealnameBothNickname E-Mail address (eg: joeschmoe@aol.com): Show your e-mail address? DefaultYesNo Your Password: Don't have a password? CLICK HERE - Forgot your password? CLICK HERE Subject: Subject:Message: : : But it was discussed a while back. : : All speculation and no first hand users. : : So with that in mind, a gray matter quick summary of the speculation. : : Seems like a good concept. Basically sound. The pressure of the spring and thus on a mis fed ball would be constant and independent of the ram force. If your ball wall strength was strong enough, you would get a 'jam' rather than a 'chop' : : You would still get 'jams' which are better than a chop any day of the week but still a REAL NUISANCE to experience in the middle of a firefight. : : So the concensus is that the only real cure is learning to STOKE, STROKE, STROKE a full trigger pull AND release each time you pull the trigger. : : Easy to say. After 9 years I still get excited and try to go TOO FAST and jam/chop one with a short stroke. Always when I need it LEAST to happen. Duh! : : There was also a consensus that a shortened 3 way would likely work just as well in decreasing the frequency of chops and jams over a stock set up. : : So compare the cost and if equal, go with the proven method. Otherwise, be adventerous and let us all know how it works out. : : There was also speculation that the bolt would act like a piston during the firing of the ball. The back pressure would push the bolt backwards and potentially cause blowback. The spring pressure would have to be sufficient to actually prevent this during firing. : : The Same consideration applies in lowering the ram force closing and opening the stoke bolt by lowering the front reg pressure. The ram is nothing but an air spring during the firing cycle. It also has to prevent the bolt from blowing backwards during firing. : : This can be easily be demonstrated if you have ever fired your marker with the bolt pin removed by 'mistake'. I suggest if you try this to NOT have your face behind the bolt when you do it. It hurts. : : But the discussion continued that the force of the ram opening and closing the bolt is far above the force required to hold the bolt closed with sufficient force to not blow back during firing and doesn't occur in the real world. : : The recocking force/pressure required to open the bolt and COMPRESS the HAMMER SPRING far exceeds what is required to hold the bolt closed during firing. Since the force required to open the bolt is the same for closing it, the spring idea still makes some sense as a viable concept with merit. : : Then the hair splitting, PURE speculation about a 'partial' bolt blowback that could potentially affect the consistency of muzzle velocities, accuracy, etc. : : AND SOMEONE else, (don't ask me where) had a different approach and aftermarket product fo the same problem. : : The goal being to have an user adjustable, minimum force to hold the bolt sufficiently closed to prevent chops and partial bolt blowback during firing. : : He used TWO front pressure regulators. One pressure set to OPEN the bolt and compress the hammer spring. The other would have the pressure set MUCH LOWER to close the ram/bolt without chopping a ball. That was an expensive front end aftermarket mod. Still, a Sound concept. : : : : And being CHEAP, I pondered a way to stick another front reg in the bottom block plug hole and do exactly the same thing.... Instead of a 3 way, it would require a completely different valving system. : : And STILL being CHEAP all one would have to do is take the hose off the 3 way feed to the ram port that closes the bolt. Save air an plug the 'extra' 3 way port. Now it won't close the bolt at all. So just put a spring inside the ram to close it. Or rig one on the connecting rod or retrofit it with a one way spring return valve. Hmmmmm..... Anyone want to try it. I have some resources for vendors. This particular project won't be on my list of things to try anytime soon? : : : : Now ya know what I know about their anti-chop bolt. : : Nothing......... : : But we had fun.... : First off: Thank you. : Second off: You stuck your head behing the bolt without the pin in? I always wondered what would happen if I forgot the pin. I myself have never tried it, but thanks for letting me know not to. It always amazes me at the stupid things us Cocker owns will do either by accident or to see what happens. My claim to fame was I couldn't get air out of the bolt. I checked the bolt and it was in right, but all it would do is make a clicking noise. Upon experimenting I for some stupid reason decided that I would pull my bolt out and stick my finger in there. In the process I had turned down my reg. Well after yelling in pain for a good 10 minutes and my dad making sure that I didn't blow my finger off via air pressure. I found out that if the bottom reg is to high, no air comes out. But (insert proper cussing), you turn that reg down a bit and air will start coming out again. If you have your finger over the valve hole, it will slam your finger hard enough against the top of the body to physically remove your finger nail. Of course it couldn't happen in the privacy of my own home, where my team couldn't see me and I could never mention my stupidity again. Instead my whole frickin team was standing right there to enjoy the experience. : So let's have some fun. What stupid or funny things have others done with thier cockers that you can look back and laugh at yourself? [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ WARPIG Tech Talk - Autococker / Minicocker ]