Posted by: DaveA on March 20, 2003 at 19:39:41

Whereas the invasion of Kuwait was certainly an action that we had the right to respond to and we did with great efficiency, this invasion of Iraq has different reasons, few of which have the same hard proof. If anything, our argument that there are so called weapons of Mass destruction (without giving any hard proof until Powell's exhibition of photographic evidence) was partially discredited by the reports of the UN inspectors. Of course now, there can be little doubt that we'll 'find' something even if we have to fabricate the evidence ourselves. Don't think we're not capabable of that! The Invasion of Iran was a 10 year war the roots of which are found in tensions decades long and partially as a result of the militant religious forces trying to expand INTO Iraq. This also is a very real reason to seriously doubt any Iraqi support of a militant organization such as Al Quaeda. Iraq had fought a very serious 10 year long war with Iran over the same issues that Al Quaeda supposedly represents. There is no denying that Saddam Hussien has defied many many of the UN resolutions during the last 10 years. But some of those resolutions were in essence insults to the sovereignty of the Country, much in the same way that Germany was humiliated after the first world war. On the human level, Iraqis are proud people, to be treated like naughty children needing to be shown the proper way to act, which of course benefits some foriegn peoples, can be very difficult to swallow. Do we Americans, as Proud as humans can be of our ideals of Freedom for all, deign to say that Freedom is only Freedom by our definition? I know that if I were a citizen of one of the Countries that we're in the process of controlling, my self-respect might depend on being Free, and that Freedom would include being allowed to be Free of the parental attitudes of another country. As for Iraq killing their own people. This 'news' came out from defectors and refugees from Iraq. It's very very likely that they have a large stake in Hussein's government being overthrown. Many of them had joined the US forces when during the Gulf war aftermath, trying to help the Kurdish insurrection which in the face of UN opposition to overtly aiding a Rebellion against a recognized Soveriegn nation, we stopped aiding. Many of those who threw their fates into the hands of the US, fund themselves suddenly in big trouble at home. Many people died for that attempt at rebellion. Though this is terrible, it's not entirely unexpected. If in ANY country in the world, a group of people rebelled against the Government, the Gov would put that rebellion down. This action created many more enemies and people with hard bitter vengeance in mind. No Iraqi refugee or defector has ANY interest in anything but saying whatever has to be said to gain support for an overthrow of Hussein. Can then this be considered real evidence of any genocide or attacks? Realistically, I don't think it can. The stakes of Doubt are people's lives. An attitude of We better Just make sure, is killing people in Iraq as I write. I respect our Military Men and Women, I've played paintball with Cadets from WestPoint for 9 years, many of them are currently serving in the Gulf, some whom I consider friends. Others who I would know by face and name, and perhaps even by paintball war story. I know they are determined to do the right thing, to do it well, and to achieve their mission with as little loss to innoccent life as possible. I know this, and I'm gald to know this. But like the wedding party in Afghanistan wherein many many innocents were slaughtered at what should have been a wonderful day of love, we cannot deny that innocent people will die. Are Dying. And at our hands. For a freedom defined by Us. As for the attacking any planes in the No-Fly zone, since 1998 the US has been flying BOMBing missions against Iraq, any time a radar station turned on and touched one of our planes, we immediately launched and destroyed the radar unit and usually an airdefense unit. When Bush entered the Administration, he had the press announce that he had stepped up the bombing. But if one digs up the stats, you;d see that Clinton had been bombing the Iraqis for a while and had authorized more missions than Bush at that time. Clinton, if you don't know, felt and feels that Hussein is a dangerous leader, his way of dealing with it was to starve Hussein, and starving they are. Speaking of which, as in Afhganistan, the Taliban, as screwed up as they were and not because of any support of AlQaeda, but because they were militant religious fanatics, stopped the feuding of clans, stopped the opium farming, and were feeding the Afghanis. Hussein, outside of whatever we may think of him, is a leader of his country and if he were to step down or aside, who would take his place? Chaos would reign. Like many many leaders before him, he rules with power in hand. This is the reality of ruling. So we must realize he has to make choices which he sees best for his country. ALL LEADERS DO THIS. Bush is very loud about claiming we must attack Iraq for our own safety, this though it would seem that it's likely to create more terrorism... There are other ways to protect our borders and interests. An good source of information on foreign policy is http://foreignaffair.org Peace. May the gods protect your father, Monkey, and bring him back safe.

Follow Ups: feel free to speak in a clear concise manner Jasleth 21:48:59 03/20/03 (7) Re: feel free to speak in a clear concise manner DaveA 13:55:35 03/22/03 (3) Your wrong. The President can declare war. Dale "Head_Hunters" DuPont 12:49:48 03/29/03 (1) actually he can't DaveA 02:53:36 03/31/03 (0) Re: feel free to speak in a clear concise manner Jasleth 12:53:11 03/27/03 (0) Re: feel free to speak in a clear concise manner m98monkey 13:05:48 03/21/03 (2) Re: feel free to speak in a clear concise manner Jasleth 13:20:17 03/21/03 (1) Canadian/Christian Perspective Wonderkid 20:00:58 03/21/03 (0) Post a Followup Show your name as: DefaultRealnameBothNickname E-Mail address (eg: joeschmoe@aol.com): Show your e-mail address? DefaultYesNo Your Password: Don't have a password? CLICK HERE - Forgot your password? CLICK HERE Subject: Subject:Message: : Whereas the invasion of Kuwait was certainly an action that we had the right to respond to and we did with great efficiency, this invasion of Iraq has different reasons, few of which have the same hard proof. If anything, our argument that there are so called weapons of Mass destruction (without giving any hard proof until Powell's exhibition of photographic evidence) was partially discredited by the reports of the UN inspectors. Of course now, there can be little doubt that we'll 'find' something even if we have to fabricate the evidence ourselves. Don't think we're not capabable of that! : The Invasion of Iran was a 10 year war the roots of which are found in tensions decades long and partially as a result of the militant religious forces trying to expand INTO Iraq. This also is a very real reason to seriously doubt any Iraqi support of a militant organization such as Al Quaeda. Iraq had fought a very serious 10 year long war with Iran over the same issues that Al Quaeda supposedly represents. : There is no denying that Saddam Hussien has defied many many of the UN resolutions during the last 10 years. But some of those resolutions were in essence insults to the sovereignty of the Country, much in the same way that Germany was humiliated after the first world war. On the human level, Iraqis are proud people, to be treated like naughty children needing to be shown the proper way to act, which of course benefits some foriegn peoples, can be very difficult to swallow. Do we Americans, as Proud as humans can be of our ideals of Freedom for all, deign to say that Freedom is only Freedom by our definition? : I know that if I were a citizen of one of the Countries that we're in the process of controlling, my self-respect might depend on being Free, and that Freedom would include being allowed to be Free of the parental attitudes of another country. : As for Iraq killing their own people. This 'news' came out from defectors and refugees from Iraq. It's very very likely that they have a large stake in Hussein's government being overthrown. Many of them had joined the US forces when during the Gulf war aftermath, trying to help the Kurdish insurrection which in the face of UN opposition to overtly aiding a Rebellion against a recognized Soveriegn nation, we stopped aiding. Many of those who threw their fates into the hands of the US, fund themselves suddenly in big trouble at home. Many people died for that attempt at rebellion. : Though this is terrible, it's not entirely unexpected. If in ANY country in the world, a group of people rebelled against the Government, the Gov would put that rebellion down. This action created many more enemies and people with hard bitter vengeance in mind. No Iraqi refugee or defector has ANY interest in anything but saying whatever has to be said to gain support for an overthrow of Hussein. : Can then this be considered real evidence of any genocide or attacks? Realistically, I don't think it can. The stakes of Doubt are people's lives. An attitude of We better Just make sure, is killing people in Iraq as I write. : I respect our Military Men and Women, I've played paintball with Cadets from WestPoint for 9 years, many of them are currently serving in the Gulf, some whom I consider friends. Others who I would know by face and name, and perhaps even by paintball war story. I know they are determined to do the right thing, to do it well, and to achieve their mission with as little loss to innoccent life as possible. I know this, and I'm gald to know this. But like the wedding party in Afghanistan wherein many many innocents were slaughtered at what should have been a wonderful day of love, we cannot deny that innocent people will die. Are Dying. And at our hands. For a freedom defined by Us. : As for the attacking any planes in the No-Fly zone, since 1998 the US has been flying BOMBing missions against Iraq, any time a radar station turned on and touched one of our planes, we immediately launched and destroyed the radar unit and usually an airdefense unit. : When Bush entered the Administration, he had the press announce that he had stepped up the bombing. But if one digs up the stats, you;d see that Clinton had been bombing the Iraqis for a while and had authorized more missions than Bush at that time. Clinton, if you don't know, felt and feels that Hussein is a dangerous leader, his way of dealing with it was to starve Hussein, and starving they are. : Speaking of which, as in Afhganistan, the Taliban, as screwed up as they were and not because of any support of AlQaeda, but because they were militant religious fanatics, stopped the feuding of clans, stopped the opium farming, and were feeding the Afghanis. Hussein, outside of whatever we may think of him, is a leader of his country and if he were to step down or aside, who would take his place? Chaos would reign. Like many many leaders before him, he rules with power in hand. This is the reality of ruling. : So we must realize he has to make choices which he sees best for his country. ALL LEADERS DO THIS. Bush is very loud about claiming we must attack Iraq for our own safety, this though it would seem that it's likely to create more terrorism... : There are other ways to protect our borders and interests. : An good source of information on foreign policy is http://foreignaffair.org : Peace. : May the gods protect your father, Monkey, and bring him back safe. [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ WARPIG Tech Talk - Autococker / Minicocker ]