Posted by: Perry Singleton on January 09, 2004 at 15:05:04

The following is a response to a post from Julius in this forum. Out of respect I have included his post first. ((((((((((((((((:Went to a game that had a new tank rule we'd never heard of before - and we weren't warned ahead of time, either (they sprung it on us the morning of the game, despite having rules posted on the internet which were "required" reading, and we read them but this rule wasn't there). : This rule took our tank's ability to move completely out of our hands. If our infantry lost control of our fuel depot, a ref would flag us down and tell us to pull off the road. : (Interestingly, early in the game we drove by the opposing team's fuel depot and waved at our troops who were in control of it, then just down the road was one of THEIR two tanks - both of which were local and didn't travel for hours to get to the game - and it was ON THE MOVE ... later we were told that a ref supposedly misunderstood the rule and let THEM drive on, while the refs near us pulled US off the road right away each time OUR fuel depot was overrun). : If you are the field's tank, or live close by, this rule is probably less annoying. But if you drive 8 hours there (and 8 hours back, for a total of 16 hours travel time), and if you spend a lot of money on gas to get to a game, it's a waste of both time and money if you end up moving your tank around the field for UNDER 2 HOURS, and you have no control over the matter! : If the bazooka guys or other tanks take us out repeatedly and shut us down for most of the day, more power to 'em - that's OUR problem for not being able to take them out before they get us (at least at this game, that NEVER happened because we weren't killed once, by a bazooka or another tank - we spotted the bazooka ambush spots and killed the bazooka guys before they could get a shot off, and we got some tank kills ... hehe!). : We only planned to play on Saturday because of the long distance we had to travel. But we figure we can usually count on 6-8 hours of tanking time. For less than 2 hours, it's not worth the time and money! : Too bad, it was a good field and if it were more "visiting-tank friendly," we'd go back. But the rules were changed just prior to game time, and the reffing was stacked against us (they did correct that problem, when it was pointed out). If a field wants visiting tanks, they need to guarantee there will be no last minute tank rule changes unless all the tankers agree (especially one like this, that will take our ability to roll completely out of our hands). : Anybody else ever play under this rule?)))))))))))) I only recently saw this post. Normally, I believe everyone is entitled their opinion. However, not when the opinion is skewed with half-truths and you put it in an open forum. Plus, you decide to unjustifiably bad mouth another event on other forums as well. Now, I will tell the whole story. First off, most scenario or big games have general game rules posted and you receive game specifics at the briefing just before the game. It’s true for any scenario game and most big games. For example, I was general for the Allied Resistance at the MXS Texas Throwdown last month. I got some curves thrown from Diane with changes in game specifics unlike any game I have ever played or commanded for them before. What is the difference if both teams play by the same rules? For everyone else reading, Rick is complaining about the game specific rule that each team had a fuel dump exactly the same distance from their respective bases. If the other team controlled your fuel dump, your armor units had to park and wait until your infantry regained control of their fuel dump. Thus, simulating that they were out of fuel. The tanks (PAVs) were allowed to park on the field near where they were flagged down and could shoot but they couldn't move. (In fact, I remember you clearly setting across from and in range of your occupied German fuel dump for nearly an hour. Why couldn’t you just blow it up and have one of your Engineers rebuild it?) It was not game managements fault that the German Army could not keep the Russian Army from controlling their fuel dump during most of the first day segment. Midway during the day, I even had the Russian retreat back to their base and let the Germans reoccupy the field because they couldn’t get out of Berlin. (The Russians again pushed the Germans back into Berlin. The teams were 92 for the Germans and 88 Russians) I even stopped the mini missions so the Russians didn't rack up the points because your team couldn’t get out of Berlin. In the night game, I allowed a non-demo to get away with blowing the missile. I COULD GO ON. The fact is the Germans got every break in this game except the one you pointed out. But you failed to mention that it happen at the beginning and I corrected it immediately. The ref at the Russian fuel dump thought the Germans had to hold it for 15 minutes before calling it in. (In the past on our field, teams had to hold an objective for 15 minutes before it was considered taken and earn the points.) I even hunted you down and told you about the screw up personally. Unfortunately, the Germans never saw the Russian fuel dump again the rest of the first day. (The fuel dump rule was scraped during Sunday’s play to give the Germans more tank support but you chose not to play.) Now, you claimed that the ref staff was stacked against you but the facts speak for themselves. In fact, the visiting opposing team players always get the calls on our field as I have clearly illustrated. That has been my standing SOP as field manager and head ref on my field. The game you recently spoke about in an open forum, Battle Creek Paintball’s OPERATION: FROZEN ARSE 2, will be like most of our events this year: The Militia on one team and all takers on the other team. (Battle Creek is now the training field for The Militia: a national scenario/big game paintball team.) In fact, I want to have The Militia outnumbered at these games. In the event that there are to few takers, we will make the teams trying out for The Militia play on the other side to ensure the other team outnumbers them. As always, all close or controversial calls go to the opposing team with no questions or discussion as with anywhere we play. Yes, I belong to the team but that’s why I am harder on them here. For example, I inserted some of the Germans from the top of the hill on the Allied’s flank on Saturday because they kept getting pushed back. I even changed the German insertion Sunday mourning to the middle of the field to help the Germans control some of the field for the sake of the game because it ‘s no fun when your staring down a .68 all day. Lastly, to show that there are still no hard feelings, I want to invite your entire crew to play with the opposing team at any event at our field at no charge for your four-person tank crew. In fact, I’ll even throw in a case of paint. Game on!

Follow Ups: So how do we fix it and make it better? Dale "Head_Hunters" DuPont 12:06:37 01/10/04 (2) Re: So how do we fix it and make it better? Dave _Tackleberry_ 16:27:31 01/10/04 (1) Hey that's an great idea! Dale "Head_Hunters" DuPont 00:21:31 01/11/04 (0) Fact checking Julius_Tank 10:10:22 01/10/04 (11) Half Truths Defined Perry "_One_Shot_" Singleton 14:48:50 01/12/04 (0) How Ironic - See this. Dale "Head_Hunters" DuPont 03:11:11 01/11/04 (1) Your the only one who noticed. Perry "_One_Shot_" Singleton 23:47:26 01/12/04 (0) I agree that the rule sounds unfair though. Dave _Tackleberry_ 10:46:09 01/10/04 (7) And with the refs not knowing the rules.... Dave _Tackleberry_ 10:49:14 01/10/04 (6) All ready do similar with the refs. "One Shot" Missouri 12:49:04 01/18/04 (1) Re: All ready do similar with the refs. "Steven Logsdon" IL 16:29:18 03/05/04 (0) Re: I print and carry the game rules. Dale "Head_Hunters" DuPont 12:22:12 01/10/04 (0) Re: And with the refs not knowing the rules.... Dale "Head_Hunters" DuPont 12:17:57 01/10/04 (2) Re: And with the refs not knowing the rules.... Dave _Tackleberry_ 15:54:55 01/10/04 (1) Re: And with the refs not knowing the rules.... Dale "Head_Hunters" DuPont 00:28:03 01/11/04 (0) Post a Followup Show your name as: DefaultRealnameBothNickname E-Mail address (eg: joeschmoe@aol.com): Show your e-mail address? DefaultYesNo Your Password: Don't have a password? CLICK HERE - Forgot your password? CLICK HERE Subject: Subject:Message: : The following is a response to a post from Julius in this forum. Out of respect I have included his post first. : ((((((((((((((((:Went to a game that had a new tank rule we'd never heard of before - and we weren't warned ahead of time, either (they sprung it on us the morning of the game, despite having rules posted on the internet which were "required" reading, and we read them but this rule wasn't there). : : This rule took our tank's ability to move completely out of our hands. If our infantry lost control of our fuel depot, a ref would flag us down and tell us to pull off the road. : : (Interestingly, early in the game we drove by the opposing team's fuel depot and waved at our troops who were in control of it, then just down the road was one of THEIR two tanks - both of which were local and didn't travel for hours to get to the game - and it was ON THE MOVE ... later we were told that a ref supposedly misunderstood the rule and let THEM drive on, while the refs near us pulled US off the road right away each time OUR fuel depot was overrun). : : If you are the field's tank, or live close by, this rule is probably less annoying. But if you drive 8 hours there (and 8 hours back, for a total of 16 hours travel time), and if you spend a lot of money on gas to get to a game, it's a waste of both time and money if you end up moving your tank around the field for UNDER 2 HOURS, and you have no control over the matter! : : If the bazooka guys or other tanks take us out repeatedly and shut us down for most of the day, more power to 'em - that's OUR problem for not being able to take them out before they get us (at least at this game, that NEVER happened because we weren't killed once, by a bazooka or another tank - we spotted the bazooka ambush spots and killed the bazooka guys before they could get a shot off, and we got some tank kills ... hehe!). : : We only planned to play on Saturday because of the long distance we had to travel. But we figure we can usually count on 6-8 hours of tanking time. For less than 2 hours, it's not worth the time and money! : : Too bad, it was a good field and if it were more "visiting-tank friendly," we'd go back. But the rules were changed just prior to game time, and the reffing was stacked against us (they did correct that problem, when it was pointed out). If a field wants visiting tanks, they need to guarantee there will be no last minute tank rule changes unless all the tankers agree (especially one like this, that will take our ability to roll completely out of our hands). : : Anybody else ever play under this rule?)))))))))))) : I only recently saw this post. Normally, I believe everyone is entitled their opinion. However, not when the opinion is skewed with half-truths and you put it in an open forum. Plus, you decide to unjustifiably bad mouth another event on other forums as well. Now, I will tell the whole story. : First off, most scenario or big games have general game rules posted and you receive game specifics at the briefing just before the game. It’s true for any scenario game and most big games. For example, I was general for the Allied Resistance at the MXS Texas Throwdown last month. I got some curves thrown from Diane with changes in game specifics unlike any game I have ever played or commanded for them before. What is the difference if both teams play by the same rules? : For everyone else reading, Rick is complaining about the game specific rule that each team had a fuel dump exactly the same distance from their respective bases. If the other team controlled your fuel dump, your armor units had to park and wait until your infantry regained control of their fuel dump. Thus, simulating that they were out of fuel. The tanks (PAVs) were allowed to park on the field near where they were flagged down and could shoot but they couldn't move. (In fact, I remember you clearly setting across from and in range of your occupied German fuel dump for nearly an hour. Why couldn’t you just blow it up and have one of your Engineers rebuild it?) : It was not game managements fault that the German Army could not keep the Russian Army from controlling their fuel dump during most of the first day segment. Midway during the day, I even had the Russian retreat back to their base and let the Germans reoccupy the field because they couldn’t get out of Berlin. (The Russians again pushed the Germans back into Berlin. The teams were 92 for the Germans and 88 Russians) I even stopped the mini missions so the Russians didn't rack up the points because your team couldn’t get out of Berlin. In the night game, I allowed a non-demo to get away with blowing the missile. I COULD GO ON. The fact is the Germans got every break in this game except the one you pointed out. But you failed to mention that it happen at the beginning and I corrected it immediately. The ref at the Russian fuel dump thought the Germans had to hold it for 15 minutes before calling it in. (In the past on our field, teams had to hold an objective for 15 minutes before it was considered taken and earn the points.) I even hunted you down and told you about the screw up personally. Unfortunately, the Germans never saw the Russian fuel dump again the rest of the first day. (The fuel dump rule was scraped during Sunday’s play to give the Germans more tank support but you chose not to play.) Now, you claimed that the ref staff was stacked against you but the facts speak for themselves. In fact, the visiting opposing team players always get the calls on our field as I have clearly illustrated. That has been my standing SOP as field manager and head ref on my field. : The game you recently spoke about in an open forum, Battle Creek Paintball’s OPERATION: FROZEN ARSE 2, will be like most of our events this year: The Militia on one team and all takers on the other team. (Battle Creek is now the training field for The Militia: a national scenario/big game paintball team.) In fact, I want to have The Militia outnumbered at these games. In the event that there are to few takers, we will make the teams trying out for The Militia play on the other side to ensure the other team outnumbers them. As always, all close or controversial calls go to the opposing team with no questions or discussion as with anywhere we play. Yes, I belong to the team but that’s why I am harder on them here. For example, I inserted some of the Germans from the top of the hill on the Allied’s flank on Saturday because they kept getting pushed back. I even changed the German insertion Sunday mourning to the middle of the field to help the Germans control some of the field for the sake of the game because it ‘s no fun when your staring down a .68 all day. : Lastly, to show that there are still no hard feelings, I want to invite your entire crew to play with the opposing team at any event at our field at no charge for your four-person tank crew. In fact, I’ll even throw in a case of paint. Game on! [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ WARPIG Tank Talk ]